Sand Castle Competition (all competitions)

pirateboi

I feel like VFK needs to step up and address some issues with the judging going on. I feel like if you enter clones for judging prizes (you should not be able to judge any rooms on the same ip address). This is creating a huge mess in the scores. I don't feel that it takes 3 days for judging all that does is let multiple clones come in and bump scores up and that takes away from the true judging score. I know all rooms are not judged the same amount of times. This too is unfair. If there are rooms that need to be disqualified as if they put no effort at all in it we should not have to judge that room. There should be at least a limit on how many items are used in a room to consider it an actual entry. I'd love to know actually how many times our rooms get judged. There should be a marker that lets us know how many times it has been judged. 

waterfallglow

@pirateboi these are really good thoughts. I have wanted staff to address some of the judging issues in relation to clones for a long time. Sadly, it's become such a controversial subject and I feel many disagree with me whenever I bring it up in conversations sometimes. Some players argue it's still completely fair with it's "rating system" where players with higher scored rooms carry more weight than players with clone rooms entered. For me, I have my huge doubts that this makes it still 100% fair. That system still seems flawed and there are still flaws and holes missing in judging in general that like you said needs addressed. Again, as you said, not all rooms get judged the same amount of times. it's random what rooms you get when judging. Plus, the fact that you can judge your clone rooms. Even if players claim they judge them fairy and that they are not bias. Still, this should not even be an option for the risk of players abusing that and for the principle of the thing too. Most players, know I only have one account and i never have owned or will use clones in judging, contests or even on a daily regular basis. That is my personal choice and I do have friends that still use and like clones. I know most players enter clones for extra judging prizes because you if you didn't you only would get one set of those items and they like them for trading. Yes, I am aware of this, but as i stated before i feel it just causes problems. I think judging being completely 100% fair is way more important than getting extra items. I know pirateboi you are not saying no clones in contests but just to make it so you don't get your clones while in judging process which is a good thought and i agree to an extent. If it were up to me though I would rather have one entry per person or per IP address. Making it happen is easier said than enforced however cause there is an issue with families using same IP which that part i do understand.

iStella

I have never been able to take any of this talk seriously because it comes from people who are angry about where they place.  I bet you dollars to donuts that if complains they are not in the top 25.  And so then all judging is unfair, if they were, say spot 5 on the board, they wouldn't complain, but if they aren't then everything is unfair and needs fixing.  Why? because people feel they should get higher and when they don't they whine!

Would I like to be first? Yes I would, do I complain because my room didn't make it? No, I don't!  Stop the whining people!

waterfallglow

I am doing very well in contest this year and am currently at 13-ish spot on overall leader board. Yet I still posted my thoughts about there still being issue. Pirateboi is right, there are issues whether it's coming from doing well in contest or not.

Blossom

Honestly I think the judging is fine, I have never seen a contest run (by VFK or another company) where some people didn't say that there were "issues" or that "more could be done to make it fair"

There will never be a utopia for contests, because in contests there are winners and losers, even if everyone won the exact same prize with no places and everyone was a "winner", no one would like that either, because it isn't a contest anymore.

And if VFK made every single change that you wanted to make the contest fair in your eyes, there would still be other people complaining about how unfair it was, and worse you would be labeled a staff favorite, especially if you won, even if it was fair.

Personally I think the contest is extremely fair, maybe when you look at the rooms in your judgement some rooms placed higher than others should have and some placed lower, that's why everyone judges each others rooms to get an average opinion.

The last 4 years I have been back, I have seen this exact same conversation again and again by different people "it's not fair" 

if you place lower, try making your rooms more like the rooms that won, maybe everyone's opinion is a little different than yours, but don't complain, losing is part of contests.

iStella

Yes, but really doesn't your opinion stem from more than 1 contest waterfallglow? and could it have been formed at a time when you placed lower than you believe you should have?  How could it not be?  because if you never entered a contest you wouldn't have any knowledge of how the judging worked and your comments wouldn't be well based on first hand experience. 

My main point is, that everyone posts these comments about fairness, and I ask you, is there ANY system that would make everyone happy?  I don't think so, because that is human nature what one person likes the other person doesn't.  So why can't you guys just be happy?  Because utopia isn't out there

I guess I just put up with this at my school so much I'm kind of sick of it, everyone walking around being entitled and saying life isn't fair.  I'm like guys you wouldn't be happy if it was

waterfallglow

I stand by my first comments.. I expected others wouldn't agree with them when I made my first post so I am not really surprised. I still commented though and stand by my words to at least let others know where I stand. To continue arguing and disagreeing on this thread won't solve anything. I just wanted to share how I felt in a tasteful manner about it all and let pirateboi know he has my support.

NiceCutePumpkin

iStella said:

I have never been able to take any of this talk seriously because it comes from people who are angry about where they place.  I bet you dollars to donuts that if you look on the leader board pirateboi is not in the top 25.  And so now all judging is unfair, if he was, say spot 5 on the board, he wouldn't be complaining, but since he's not everything is unfair and needs fixing.  Why? because people feel they should get higher and when they don't they whine!

Would I like to be first? Yes I would, do I complain because my room didn't make it? No, I don't!  Stop the whining people!

As someone who has placed first many of times I think your comment is ridiculous. Missclue is for posting opinions for ways to improve VFK. His point has nothing to do with where he has placed - and I 100% agree with what he is saying. And I didn't even enter the competition this year.

He's simply pointing out the fact that there are MANY people that make a main room on their main account, and add a bunch of bogus rooms on their clones simply for points - and in the process of judging, give themselves 5 stars.

VFK has used the same system since building has started - it would be nice if they blocked it so that you could only enter once - and not have the opportunity to bump up your own score unfairly.

People are allowed to have opinions and post about ways to improve VFK and make it a better game. I personally didn't enter nor am I judging because every single room I judged last competition was junk clones room and it takes away from the game. It ruins the fun in judging, Back in 2010 - it wasn't like that. And I enjoyed building, and I enjoyed judging. And just for reference - yes I was in the top 25 last building competition. A change to the judging system like Pirateboi mentioned would definitely make building competitions a lot more fun and would make me want to enter again, as well as make many put more effort into their own room instead of putting the effort into making 20 clone rooms.

Kitten

Let me start off by saying, I see both points and sides. However, like others have said. There will be no perfect system and this happens every. single. competition. Even if VFK put in place everything @pirateboi said. There would still be issues. Families on the same network/IP will be locked out of the system. Why should they have to email support and somehow provide proof that multiple users are on the same IP? You shouldn't have to submit any type of proof of residency form for a free-to-play online game, that's ridiculous. 

For me, the answer is simple. If I see a clone room that just has random objects or whatever in it, I give it a one star across the board and mark it as 'other'. Personally, I don't see the problem with clones as long as effort is put in. There is a reason the room info doesn't say the owner, and its simply because bias. There are people in game that I don't get along with, and no matter how hard I try, if I was judging their room, that bias would work its way in. That's just how the human mind works--even journalists as unbiased as they try to be, are biased. It just happens. 

The point remains, clone or not, you are judging on the creativity of the room. That's all that should matter in a contest like this. If someone has the creativeness to get in first place twice, once on a clone, and once on the main, good for them. They have a future in design. If you didn't place, or didn't like where you place--keep practicing. 

In the two years I've been back (after taking a two year break), my highest placement is second and that was the Garden 2018 competition. My lowest is me not even placing and getting participation/judging awards. I gained that placing by studying the other rooms, and then coming up with my own idea. 

And while yes, computer lag has a factor for some people, I placed second on a 6 year old laptop that can't even win at nightly word games so if I can do it, others can.