A solution for 'losers'

Flamanar

Now that I've caught your attention, I have an idea.  Right now, alot of people are seriously angry because they waited for an hour yesterday and an hour today trying to get an event prize (football jersey).  People ended up 'losing' in the event, which was a 'win/lose' type game.  And the 'losing' part feels like a smack if it's been a long wait for nothing.

While I'm not a big fan of 'consolation prizes' (or the 'everyone should get something' mantra), I believe there is an equitable solution for those that lose at a win/lose event, where personal time is invested.

My idea?  "Chance tickets".  Please bear with me while I elaborate on this:

For a person who does not win the prize during a 'win/lose' event, instead of a 'better luck next time', they are issued a 'chance ticket'.  The ticket would be time-limited (similar to 'admission tickets' given out to people who are afk when they are pulled into an event room, then sent back to their room with a time limit stating how long the player has to use the 'ticket' ).  So no 'ticket underground' or 'ticket trading' schemes start.  Maybe make the tickets 'expire' within either an hour after the event ends or within 24 hours.  I'd also make the tickets non-tradable.

Hang in there, not finished:

The ticket-bearer would be able to redeem the ticket for a 'spin' of a 'chance wheel'.  The wheel would essentially be similar to the crossword puzzle wheel or the casino wheels (although the casino wheel designs aren't elaborate enough for my liking).  Various prizes would be available via the wheel.  I would not make any spot on the wheel be a 'lose' space.  At the least allow the ticket-bearer something like 250 credits.  VFK can afford to lose that much ;)  Kidding, but hang in there...

The 'biggest prize' on the wheel would be up to VFK to decide.  It could be a wheel that's strictly varying amounts of credits.  Maybe 1k-10k is the biggest prize if the wheel is credit-based?  Or one 'pie piece' could be something more valuable.  Obviously, some thought needs to be put into what a 'biggest prize' would be for the wheel.

VFK could place a wheel visible to everyone in the hotel, so people can watch others using the wheel to redeem their tickets, and view what they've won (it should be no 'secret').  It would be standing vertically, like ones that can be seen at carnivals and whatnot.  The flaw with a single wheel in the hotel is obviously:  a line.  People having to wait until the person who ran 40 clones...most of whom lost in the event...redeems their tickets.  Depending on the amount of 'losers', the wait may be unacceptable.  In which case, something more like the crossword puzzle wheel may be more practical, and people can redeem the ticket/tickets from anywhere, via a menu entry for the wheel.

This type of thing is already being used by VFK...as mentioned...for the crossword puzzles and at the casino...so VFK shouldn't have to re-invent the wheel (pun).  It shouldn't be difficult at all to make something like this work, and at least the 'losers' get compensated for the time they spent losing.  My daughter got in the queue twice during yesterday's 1-hour event and lost both times.  Today she got in twice and lost once.

Again, to be fair, this shouldn't become a 'numbers game', where a single main can run their bazillion clones that lost through the wheel to get piles of loot.  Not the idea at all.  This should be more geared towards allowing people who spent -time- doing the event to have a chance to get -something-.  ANYTHING, rather than nothing.  That being said, there could be options for redeeming 'x' amount of tickets at one time.  So if someone has 3 tickets, they could use them all-at-once, and that spin has a higher rate of winning something substantial.  This type of thing was being used at the last online game I was playing before returning to VFK.  However, tickets in that game were obtained through different means, mostly purchased by players.  And their wheel served a different purpose.

A sample wheel illustration from my former game:

Obviously, the wheel above is 100% geared towards the previous game (as is the artwork), but it's a concept.  I believe a 'chance system' is the way to go, and does give people a second chance.  Rather than being turned away empty-handed.  Fwiw.

Flame

@VFK_Enigma @VFK_Mintie @VFK_Vintage 

icywater_princess

Huzzah....I could not have said it better myself. There is NOTHING worse than a smack in the face of getting the message that says "Sorry!

Sorry, better luck next time!  After waiting patiently for a number.

even worse....waiting patiently and constantly seeing....

Queue Full

The queue is currently full.  Your status will be updated again momentarily...

This system is not random, there is no Queue.  I have stood on balta to watch the same accounts come out of the host room in EXCESS of 5 times a event, boasting about their wins, when others are always getting the shaft.

After 11 years, it is time for a change, and a POSITIVE change.  

While I agree with most of what Flame said above, I am a fan of a consolation prize for the players...and with that thought, let me explain.

EVERYONE that is on for the event, SHOULD get a number.   DOes that mean you will get in to see the HOST?  Absolutely Not.  Host rooms are normally scheduled for a hour, to hours at best. Yes they have lives too, and to be fair, we should respect that.  HOWEVER... for those who are in the QUEUE when the actual event closes, SHOULD get at least something for their time too.   Most events are during OUR dinner time with families and whatnot, and there is nothing more disheartening than waiting and watching a QUEUE that DOES NOT give a number.

So...What I am asking for is a change in 3 parts.  One, fix the freaking Queue system.  Give us a number and get on with it.  This concept will atleast give the players hope that they will atleast get "something" for their time and support to the game.

Part 2- I love the concept of the wheel suggested above, that would certainly spice things up a bit and would be a nice change.

Part 3- Staff, please stop entertaining players in the HOST room.  People should be getting in, participating in the event and get out.  This allows more players to enjoy the event as well.   I have watched, more often than not, some players malingering in the HOST rooms, chatting up a storm, which only prevents OTHERS from getting in...

If you really want to get more people in, go back to the OLD RIDE EVENT Concept.  as soon as your in the host room, you rump is put on the ride, regardless if you like it or not, and you are on your way....  This does not require much staff interaction ( maybe the occasional refresh of a player who is causing a traffic jam), but gives the entire kingdom the opportunity to participate..

Flame, thank you for posting this, lets hope that staff reads it and maybe makes some of the changes that the people of VFK are ready for!

@VFK_Mintie @VFK_Enigma @VFK_Brizzie @VFK_Cactus @VFK_Vintage @VFK_Sky  @VFK

Flake

icywater_princess said:

Huzzah....I could not have said it better myself. There is NOTHING worse than a smack in the face of getting the message that says "Sorry!

Sorry, better luck next time!  After waiting patiently for a number.

even worse....waiting patiently and constantly seeing....

Queue Full

The queue is currently full.  Your status will be updated again momentarily...

This system is not random, there is no Queue.  I have stood on balta to watch the same accounts come out of the host room in EXCESS of 5 times a event, boasting about their wins, when others are always getting the shaft.

After 11 years, it is time for a change, and a POSITIVE change.  

While I agree with most of what Flame said above, I am a fan of a consolation prize for the players...and with that thought, let me explain.

EVERYONE that is on for the event, SHOULD get a number.   DOes that mean you will get in to see the HOST?  Absolutely Not.  Host rooms are normally scheduled for a hour, to hours at best. Yes they have lives too, and to be fair, we should respect that.  HOWEVER... for those who are in the QUEUE when the actual event closes, SHOULD get at least something for their time too.   Most events are during OUR dinner time with families and whatnot, and there is nothing more disheartening than waiting and watching a QUEUE that DOES NOT give a number.

So...What I am asking for is a change in 3 parts.  One, fix the freaking Queue system.  Give us a number and get on with it.  This concept will atleast give the players hope that they will atleast get "something" for their time and support to the game.

Part 2- I love the concept of the wheel suggested above, that would certainly spice things up a bit and would be a nice change.

Part 3- Staff, please stop entertaining players in the HOST room.  People should be getting in, participating in the event and get out.  This allows more players to enjoy the event as well.   I have watched, more often than not, some players malingering in the HOST rooms, chatting up a storm, which only prevents OTHERS from getting in...

If you really want to get more people in, go back to the OLD RIDE EVENT Concept.  as soon as your in the host room, you rump is put on the ride, regardless if you like it or not, and you are on your way....  This does not require much staff interaction ( maybe the occasional refresh of a player who is causing a traffic jam), but gives the entire kingdom the opportunity to participate..

Flame, thank you for posting this, lets hope that staff reads it and maybe makes some of the changes that the people of VFK are ready for!

@VFK_Mintie @VFK_Enigma @VFK_Brizzie @VFK_Cactus @VFK_Vintage @VFK_Sky  @VFK

Hi love these ideas you guys have! I strongly agree on the fact the queue system needs to be fixed mainly by giving people a number even if its 202 its better than seeing a queue full button and losing hope and its frustrating seeing the same people in queue when I almost never get in would love to see consolation prizes as well wonderful idea! 

icywater_princess

Flake said:

icywater_princess said:

Flakes Comment-  Hi love these ideas you guys have! I strongly agree on the fact the queue system needs to be fixed mainly by giving people a number even if its 202 its better than seeing a queue full button and losing hope and its frustrating seeing the same people in queue when I almost never get in would love to see consolation prizes as well wonderful idea! 

I totally Agree Flake! I would rather see 200 in the Queue and get a small "something or other"  rather than lose an hour of time :/

Flamanar

Thanks for the kind words Ice and Flake.  The idea for the 'chance wheel' may be adjusted or changed any way that VFK sees fit.  I don't expect this new system to be exactly as I detailed, but I believe the concept/framework I detailed could become quite a positive solution.

Ice is also correct in that people shouldn't be clinging to staff in the event rooms (unless it's in the exit!).  I've seen people chatting up staff, which distracts them from their task of moving people into the room and keeping them moving into the event.  Otherwise (as Ice stated) staff is hindered....which ends up creating 'x' amount of unhappy members who are trying to participate in an event.  Because a person/people want to talk to staff about a problem they're having.  Or exchange recipes.  You get the idea.  I enjoy saying "hugs" and moving directly onto the ride, knowing I'm 'making space' for others.  Which is the way it should be.  The best system being putting people straight onto a ride.  No 'gridlock' in the entrance.

Flame

Kitten

Another option for the clone/queue system. Only allow an IP address to get in once, twice or maximum three times. I admit, I use clones, but the MAXIMUM I've gotten in is twice. Once on my main, once on my clone. I honestly don't know how some people can get in 5+ times. 

That said, I do love the idea of your chance wheel flame! Or even it could be a token system--you get x amount of tokens and you can redeem them for prizes, maybe something like the furni exchange prize system. Common enough where people won't overly complain about it, but rare/valuable enough to make it worth the players while.

Holly

I would really like to see something done about the clones as well.

I use clones but 9 times out of 10 only 1 gets in and it’s usually not my main account.

Lily_Hoshikawa

I usually get in twice on my main and I only use clones for the longer events like the mazes minitie does. I think after the event ends there could be a small prize given out to all of the players who didn't get in like a small furniture item or something. I also agree that the number you are at in queue should be shown that way you knnow what your odds of making into the event are. 

MagentaDream

  I have read all these ideas and they are interesting.

Flamanar

Thanks for the input folks.  Cute_Lina above mentioned small prizes for people who couldn't get into the event.  VFK already gives out 'party favors' after every ball, so that's another potential solution where VFK doesn't have to 'invent' something from scratch.  Although the favors are mostly limited to a cookie, a jar of milk and balloon, lol.  Honestly, I'm not knocking party favors, and I collect....alot of them.  They have their place in VFK, and it's a cool 'token' for attending the balls.  But any consolation should probably have a larger value than the favors.

Flame

Kitten

There are definitely problems with filtering by IP, I agree, but what other situation do you have for the clone system?Which is why I said setting a maximum per ip, lets say 5. That way if all five family members play, they would, theoretically, be able to get in once per account. One thing I did think about after posting my original post is using a MAC address, which would be unique to each device. The only issue I see with that though, is that I don't think VFK would be able to view that, as it's complicated to even find in your router settings--which would be opening another can of worms regarding security. 

The rumor I've heard in regards to the Antique shop is people using third party software. Because I built my PC to be on the higher end of the spectrum, and I have decent internet speeds on wifi and even better when plugged into the router/modem itself, and I've only gotten one item per round on the Antique Shop.  Another thing I'm also wondering is, when Flash ends, and most of us have to switch to the client (unless there's another change in the works that i'm unaware of), if that will help with the third party software, if that's true and happening, of course. (I have no proof, just a conversation with someone last summer. so don't take that as fact.)

Flamanar

Hi Kitten. 

Antique shop:  I've heard many rumors and stories of some members using 3rd party software in general in VFK.  That's been going on since beta as well, and I'm sure it's hard for VFK to figure out if someone is using software to gain an unfair advantage in game.

The clone system has always been difficult to control (impossible).  It's something that really needed to be nipped in the bud in beta, but it was not and now we have people with hundreds of clones.  Ironically, before we left game in 2011, people who had clones were demonized by most players.  Dragged through the streets.  The horror!  Now since we've returned?  People look at you funny if you DON'T have clones!  And alot of those people giving the funny looks are people who used to freak out on people who used clones back when!  2 words:  ultimate irony.  And what happens is that people have a hard time getting into the Queue.  So they add more and more to try to increase their odds.  Trying to even the playing field. 

And so we accept the clones, as it's too late to turn things around now, and honestly it would've been hard to curb them in beta as well.  

Thanks again Kitten

Flame

Lily_Hoshikawa

You guys can get one of anything from antique? that's a serious struggle for me and I never met anyone who was nice enough to share their antiques. 

Kitten

Let me clarify, I don't ALWAYS get one per round at the antique, I was just saying that's the MOST I've ever been able to get, furthering Flame's point of it being broken somehow, by the system itself, or by players.  @cute_lina

Flame, to your point of limiting maximum IPs, I was going along the train of my previous post, of not having win/lose games--as that was the original topic of the thread, I assumed that was implied. I was wrong and I apologize for not clarifying that. To your point of third party software--VFK should not be able to tell, for example, if you had an auto hotkey or auto clicker installed. Because that is software that is run on your computer and is not apart of what VFK should see.  

I will admit, I don't how how much "big" players are pulling in, and until I see actual numbers, I'm seldom to believe it is as big as the voices make it seem. Because like other players, I have been in various social games--and usually things are often blown out of proportion by the crowd, but what I have seen, by many players' own admission, is that they "hoard" items. Now is that through fairly trading? Or by beating the system? I don't know.  In this sense, I'm not naive, I know the system is broken, and I think some good suggestions were put here, however, making the same point over and over again, does nothing to actively fix the system. 

I honestly find it hard to believe that Staff is actively playing favorites, I don't think they are handpicking Jane Doe to go into events six, eight, ten times, or handpicking Bob Smith to get x3 of every item of antique. I do, however believe it is a broken system, be it how the code interacts with the players, who is closest to a server in terms of location, internet speeds, or any other hundreds of factors that go into a game like this. 

Again, let's be honest with ourselves, we can make suggestions all day long, but it is up to VFK itself to implement any changes--and with that comes things like man power, server power, coding ability, etc.  We don't and will never know what's going on behind the scenes, and I believe its inappropriate for us to assume such.

Flamanar

Cute, yeppers but not one of everything.  And only if my daughter is helping (she's faster than I am).  Perspective though.  We're running 3 computers.  If you look at the odds considering the computery (made-up word, btw) we're running, there's no way others running only themselves should be getting multiples of just about everything during antiques.

And I have seen antiques given to others, yes.  But it's a 'closed circle', so to speak.  But normally you're right.  Few cough up antiques.  We lock ours up or use them exclusively in rooms that always stay 'up'.  Or contest rooms.

There are good people out there, don't get me wrong.  I've been given things which blew me away, and I was extremely grateful for.  I never forget those kind deeds, and people who've been gracious to me generally receive something at a later date from me (granted, there's always the "what do you give the person who already has everything?").  However when we see them after antiques sporting all the latest....can't help but wonder how that happens.

Perspective is everything.

Flame

MagentaDream

I think we need to stop reiterating the fact. If nothing is done, then approach it again. I am not denouncing or denying the cause here but I think we have covered this to an almost annoying degree which will only turn people away.

Flamanar

-deleted-, in case it wasn't obvious

MagentaDream

  Flame, I see your perspective now. 

Flamanar

-deleted- some potentially deleterious material. 

(cause "-deleted-" alone just wasn't enough.  Keep up with the puns, people...)  :P

Kitten

@Flamanar 

I'm not sure where you're getting that I said there WASN'T problem, when I've clearly said there WAS. I was agreeing with you. I was only disagreeing with some of the finer points to made--that it wasn't JUST the queue, or JUST favoritism. Like you, I was talking about possible solutions, that yes, have holes in them, but as you said, any solution is better then none. If that wasn't clear, I apologize. 

But I will always side on those behind the scenes, because I AM behind the scenes in my real life job, and I KNOW there are all types of bugs, glitches, circumstances, software, human emotion, and tons of things that we, as players WILL NEVER see, beta or not. And it's good we don't see them. (And yes, Flame, I was beta, not that the time frame in which I started playing matters at all in this regard).

As you've said, repeatedly, the Queue system has been broken for a very long time, and not just you and Ice have noticed it. Check Balta street at any event and you'll see a gaggle of us talking about it. The playing field does need equaling out, but I don't know if there is a way for Staff to do that to make everyone feel like its fair.

However, my frustration with posts like this is that it quickly starts to read as a negative thread and becomes a "beating the dead horse" as Purrfect said, rather a positive thread. I know you, Flame, I don't believe that's how you intended it, and that's not how I intended it either.  However, it seems my intent did not come across and I apologize sincerely for that.

All of us are passionate about VFK and that's what matters, at the end of the day, broken system or not. 

Thank you, @Flamanar for the great discussion

- Kit.

Flamanar

Thanks Kitten, and apologies for my tone.  And I did misunderstand your last post.  Worse, your post overlapping one that I was typing up at the same time...so I was typing about things that I didn't even see in your post until much later in the day.

(hugs), no offense meant, Kitten.  Misunderstandings, yes.  Topic went off course in a few areas, for sure.  Apologies from me to you.  I'll take down the topic later if possible.  Or staff can do so.  They've been silent through the entire thing, and can't blame them.

Flame 

MagentaDream

  Flame, I'm sorry this is how you feel. Tell me your thoughts @Flamanar. Thank you. 

Flamanar

Hi Purr.  I'm returning this post back to its origin, which was providing an option so that 'win/lose' events could at least give the losing party something, as it is usually an hour or two of potentially valuable time that a player spends waiting to win.  Walking away empty handed just feels kinda cold, and time is money  ;)

The other legs that this thread grew can be discussed in any new thread if someone feels compelled to start one.   I suggest sticking to a single item, as opposed to how it ended up with this thread.  Thanks much for bearing with. 

(hugs)

Flame

@Purrfect

MagentaDream

Flamanar said:

Hi Purr.  I'm returning this post back to its origin, which was providing an option so that 'win/lose' events could at least give the losing party something, as it is usually an hour or two of potentially valuable time that a player spends waiting to win.  Walking away empty handed just feels kinda cold, and time is money  ;)

The other legs that this thread grew can be discussed in any new thread if someone feels compelled to start one.   I suggest sticking to a single item, as opposed to how it ended up with this thread.  Thanks much for bearing with. 

(hugs)

Flame

@Purrfect

  This is a great way to compensate the losing party. :) Thanks again.

-Purr

Kitten

@Flamanar

I'm not sure if this is due your efforts or not, but I got into a queue in the event today--at position 37, which is the highest i've been placed in the queue in the long time. Not that I'm complaining! I'd definitely like to know my position instead of getting queue full the entire event.

Flamanar

Kitten said:

@Flamanar

I'm not sure if this is due your efforts or not, but I got into a queue in the event today--at position 37, which is the highest i've been placed in the queue in the long time. Not that I'm complaining! I'd definitely like to know my position instead of getting queue full the entire event.

Not sure, Kitten, but I had the same experience:

Wow, I haven't seen numbers that high since.........................?  And it helps to know where we're at.  For me it allowed me to safely go get a drink of water, answer the door, paint the roof (wait...didn't paint the roof, lol), that type of thing.  The numbers did go down really quickly. 

It was a good day ;) 

Flame

@Kitten

MagentaDream

Flamanar said:

Kitten said:

@Flamanar

I'm not sure if this is due your efforts or not, but I got into a queue in the event today--at position 37, which is the highest i've been placed in the queue in the long time. Not that I'm complaining! I'd definitely like to know my position instead of getting queue full the entire event.

Not sure, Kitten, but I had the same experience:

Wow, I haven't seen numbers that high since.........................?  And it helps to know where we're at.  For me it allowed me to safely go get a drink of water, answer the door, paint the roof (wait...didn't paint the roof, lol), that type of thing.  The numbers did go down really quickly. 

It was a good day ;) 

Flame

@Kitten

  I got in near the end and I felt it was a good day too.

Flamanar

It looked like they were letting aLOT of people come in in waves.  There was a problem with people not knowing what to do once they got in the room.  If there was a message board or something at the entrance (or in the room description) that could prepare people for what they'd be doing, that would I think move people along faster.  I know some people panic a bit when they get into an event room...and don't know what to do.  Just a suggestion. Otherwise, this event felt alot different than what I've seen since I've returned, and seemed to succeed at getting more people into the event.  Good news, and no 'losers'  ;)  Fwiw.

ETA:  another helpful feature for members called into an event?  Music.  Or any sound effects.  That way if we're in queue, we can turn up the volume on our computers, and even if we walk to another room, we should be able to -hear- when whomever we have logged in to the event is IN the event.  My normal setup is having my speakers turned up loud if I have to walk away for 'x' minutes.  Right now, I can at least hear when people are talking in the event or when anyone else enters the event room.  Music or sound effects would be awesome.   I think I've heard it at some events.  It works.  Obviously, users need to adjust in their audio 'options' so they can hear a notification when a player enters the room and when a player talks.  For music/sound effects, they'd also have to enable 'background sound'.  The added music/sound effects would be a huge bonus.

@VFK_Mintie  @VFK_Enigma  @VFK_Vintage @Purrfect  @Kitten

Flame

Kitten

@Flamanar

Oh yes! I agree, a new sound affect specific to HOST events would help so much!

I also agree that this event felt way different then before--I don't know if Staff enlarged the queue size, room size, or both, but I think it was a HUGE improvement over last week's event.  I would really like to see it continue into the next round of events.